thank you Marilyn. Great job. I think this will work great.Several members have mentioned they wern't sure how to do the blog, esp the getting a google account. maybe a little blurb to assist? I figured how to turn the page. Linda
It's easy to post...then you have to select a profile...that is an identifier. Google is the easiest...get an email address there, it is free...and use that to sign up. I have a Google address that I don't use much. We can save these things to look at again.
hi Marilyn. Hope your husband is feeling better. i see the button to the right of screen that links to websites and maps,etc. How do I add something? Do I send it to you via email and then you post the link? i have completed the revided contacts list and will mail out in the am. Happy Holiday to all! Linda
I've been working on a table to track how all the submitters fit together. My sister, Vicki Carroll, has seen it as well as Linda French Dawson.
I'm lacking data on 4 submitters (Poole, Atkins and the 2 Hammans), but I've traced the French line for the rest. Unless I hear an uproar about privacy, I'll upload it to this site. If there are privacy issues, I'll e-mail it to individuals. If you wish to print it, it will fit on legal size paper.
Vicki says Deb Skoff won't like where George Hedges French is placed, but we can deal with that until new data shows up.
My ideas about George Hedges French aren't set in stone - it's just my best guess as to where he fits in with the others. We have a lot of missing pieces to find and fit together in order to find the true relationships among these Frenchs.
I'm interested to see the table you've put together and curious about how a table will fit on this site. Thanks for doing this.
My George Hedges can easily be moved also. I've found that the other husbands attributed to Catherine Hedges, Julien and Woods, were actually husbands to her aunt and namesake. The absolute lack of data on her and her spouse amazes me.
I'm thinking the chart will end up in the section off to the right labeled "Pictures, Maps etc.". Maybe, maybe not.
The table is a great reference tool. I've used it more than once. I'm interested to see how you get the table in the link. I wanted to post a file there and I couldn't figure out how. May have to send to Marilyn and have her put it in.
If anyone is doing research in the Vigo County, Indiana area, you should check out the Wabash Valley Genealogy Society website at http://www.inwvgs.org/. Click on "Databases" along the left side of the webpage.
I chose the "Vigo County Cemetery Books" link and decided to work backward so started with Vol. IV, looking for FRENCH. When I got to Vol. III, I found burials of Ersom French's first 2 wives plus a child that died at the age of 3 months. They are buried at Hull Cemetery. (Ersom is the grandson of Henry French of Mercer County, KY.)
Michael I was able to get the chart. thanks. I tried to follow Marilyn's direction to post a map but I do not find the design button. would you post how you did it, step by step.My screen says "errors on page" as I type this.
Thanks to Deb for Wabash link. I have ties to Terre Haute on my maternal side and was in TH for a week researching at the library. Linda
whew. after numerous trys I created my own blogspot and I think I managed to post the 4 part 1882 map of Western MD for viewing. please let me know how it looks. these are right side up! Linda
Marilyn can we have a button where offers for lookups can be listed? I have Map Guide to Census, Handybook for Genealogists and Andriot Twp atlas to locate boundary changes from 1790. I am willing to do lookups in those books. Linda
I can post pictures and maps. I have linked your blog, Linda. At this point, we only have 2 people signed up to follow this. I had hoped that more folks would sign up. I think some of the posting trouble has been the fact that not you may not be on the follow list.
I think more people will sign up as they have time, Marilyn. It's helping with the emails for sure.
I'm wondering if your screen as the blog owner is a bit different from what the rest of us are seeing. The only place I see to write something is in the "Post a Comment" text box. For us to post a table, a map, a pdf, etc. we either have to set up our own blog or we could email the document to Marilyn and she would be able to post it to her blog. Does this make sense or am I missing something?
Deb, I tried to upload a pdf last night. It will not accept anything but jpg,png and gif. BUT a document can be scanned into a jpg and uploaded. that is what Michael and I did. It is several extra steps. I have to work on my blog to try and organize it so things can be found by submitter test name/number. I agree there will be more participation as time passes. We can tweak the site and make it user friendly. you could creat your own blog which is not too hard. not user friendly though.and time consuming. do you have a scanner? If not you can send me the file, I will convert and post. I'm willing to help. Then you can post a comment on the French Researchers blog to alert users how to access thru my blog. OK? Linda
Thanks, Marilyn. As you can see, I now have a Google account and , hopefully, have posted a comment about George French. I have been frustrated by my wall for at least ten years but leads from you and our fellow researchers have really helped. I think I can see the end, and this blog will be very useful. Fred
Hi everyone. I just noticed that Mara French of FFA placed a link to our blog on the new chart 136. It may not be up yet. Fred, are there any corrections needed? We need to get busy and do some posting. Marilyn, will any data we post come up on a Google search? Did we open it to public or are we still private? Linda
We are a public blog. Linda & Michael, just keep on with your pictures, maps, etc. Picasa that available in google, is a good place for pictures. I will post the link to my collection of French pictures. I have found another problem....IE9 will does not allow me to post ....I have to go to Firefox to post here. I like IE but the many links don't work for me there.
I copied and pasted the Samuel French/Julia Dougherty comments to the Jonathan French test page. I checked the emails that Jan Lund sent in 1999 and this agrees with her research. Jan is having a hip replacement this month and we won't be hearing from her for a while.
I was able to post the map images from my own computer files. I have flickr but don't want to mix it with my knitting stuff. IE9? How do I find out what version I have? Fred says he posted to his (George) chapter but then they disappeared. I just posted to my chapter(John Peter) and it is still there and has not disappeared. Weird.
Knowing that Berkeley Co., WV, Frederick Co. and Orange Co. and I think Hagerstown, MD were all one and the same place but changed boundaries, it might be easier to figure out these French families who all are part of DNA Test Group 4.
Jacob French is the furthest back I've been able to research, but he seems to tie in with Chart #194.
Remember, this is only a DRAFT and needs a lot more shuffling, so please help with documents if you can.
Regards, Mara French http://www.frenchfamilyassoc.com/FFA/
I was trying to develop a scheme to identify sub-groups within Group4 that probably were most closely related to each other. I asked Julia French Wood (FFA DNA site) for her opinion on my efforts. She advised that my approach (FTDNA-TiP and genetic distance analysis) wouldn't do what I wanted, so I have dropped it. But, I thought her response was worth sharing with everyone:
"Hi Tim, In my opinion, the TIP is useless. Mutations are random and can happen at any time. The only way you can tell which are the closest is by a pattern of the same mutation in several of the tests. For instance, the first four tests in the group (Gp 4) who have a 12 at the 31st marker have a common ancestor where that mutation occurred and the ones who have a 13 at that position have a common ancestor where that mutation happened or where their line broke off from the first four. The only way to find a common ancestor is via genealogy research using the documents and migration patterns.
"Some groups mutate more often than others and nobody knows why. It is possible, too, that a line may mutate and then the same marker returns to the original length in the next generation. If you look at Group 1 for instance, many of them have very close Haplotypes even though the common ancestor is most likely in the 17th century. Also, in my Samuel line, there is a fellow who is more closely related and he has 5 mutations out of 37 markers with the majority of the group. You may notice, too, in Group 1 that the descendants of Aaron have their specific mutation and the group at the bottom from VA instead of NJ have two or three specific mutations from the rest.
"Your group needs to all upgrade to at least 37 markers to find the patterns and identify the closest family members.
"As for work groups, it is best for all to research and all to share their findings as each could give clues to all. The findings could be shared with the French list as you never know what other data may be in the possession of someone out there.
thanks, Tim.Your idea sounded like a good one. Glad we have an expert like Julia to help us. You might post a link to the Blackburn site which gives your FRENCH lineage. We are all trying to post a brief timeline also. Mara French of FFA has been working on a draft for Jacob French of WVA so we will have new info coming soon. exciting. Linda
Thanks for passing along this information from Julia. To me, her most important point is that: "The only way to find a common ancestor is via genealogy research using the documents and migration patterns".
Now that DNA has proven these Frenchs ARE related, we will need to find historical evidence that can prove HOW they are related.
Migration patterns will be very important. I'm hoping that if we all post a timeline for our earliest known ancestor, it will help us decide where to focus our research efforts.
Naming patterns may also be useful. For example, has anyone noticed that Philip French b. about 1790 of Ohio/Indiana, had a son named Isaac? This suggests to me the possibility that Philip might have a closer connection to Isaac French of Detroit/Ontario than their distant places of residence indicate. How many miles is it between Butler County, OH and Detroit, MI?
When I was following the family lines for the 12 DNA submitters, I found 7 Davids, 7 Isaacs, 9 Henrys (1 Henrietta) 10 Jacobs,18 Jameses and a whopping 27 Georges.
It can be really difficult to distinguish between a father and son who have the same name - which could be the case with Jacob French. I hope you all have wonderful weather and research success to match. Thanks for your help.
I live about a 4-hr drive north of Berkeley Co. For your trip, I'm guessing there will be rain showers, with day temps in the 50s and early mornings at freezing. Wish we were at that point at this time of the year: we still have snow on the ground in the Pocono's!
I should also not be surprised if our Philip was a Jacob, Henry, or something else. The old German tradition used saints names for the first name. We're on the right track!
Thanks to all of you for signing up for this thing. I am working on the archive thing...it is almost as complicated as a website...I plan to have it up in a few days...essentially this is a simplified version of a website. They have already done some of the stuff before it sets up.
I really appreciate the work you're doing with this blog. It's coming along nicely! I'm also glad to see the participation growing and the new posts that have been submitted in the last few days.
Hi Marilyn. Is it possible to have a sign that tells if there are new posts on it? or a counter or something? I have to click each of the 10 "chapters" to read a new post. I've not had good luck trying to organize my own blog storage area.Yours is a much better job. It would be nice to change the "older posts" button to page 2, page 1 also. I know most blogs don't do it but seems the most recent post should be at the top, not have to scroll to the bottom. Is hubbie home? Good Luck.Linda
Now, to muddy the waters...Philip's oldest son was Warner...I found in the DAR patriot index a Samuel who married Lydia WARNER...I don't think anyone has done a lineage on that line. Why was he named Warner? he could have been a Henry, James, John, etc. I still think there is a connection there and we can't ignore it. I wish I had more time to do this.
My husband came home on Tues. after 12 days in the hospital. We walk one day at a time....with God's help.
I've made my final edits and updates to FFA Chart #195 for awhile. Now I'll work on the other charts that relate to French DNA Group 4. I may have found the connection to FFA Chart #194 and #31, but the rest are unclear.
Please use link to websites and log onto my storage blog. I've posted a cropped 1847 Berkeley Co, VA now WVA map and key.Shows J and H FRENCH locations. The original map is big.
I am willing to do lookups for family names in the entire county. The US census 1850 follows the river and valley. Linda
Marilyn, From obits from the Berkeley papers. Harry E French (8.4) married Lavicia Beatrice Brannon, AKA Vicie. The "V" middle initial came from a census enumerator error that also caused the "V" middle initial error for their daughter Violet Beatrice French (9.5).
I may have found a "new" granddaughter of Henry and Elizabeth (Earsom) French who moved to Tennessee before 1850. Has anyone else seen information about Talitha Jane French?
Today I found a transcibed memoir written in 1940 by Virginia Hill Frensley (1863-1946) Of Davidson County, TN. Virginia says the following:
"My Family:
Mother’s name – Talitha Jane French Grandfather – French Grandmother – Earsom Migrated from Va., settled in Ky.
Children: James Earsom French Simon Pancake French, settled in Calif. Mary, married Denham, moved to Mo, later to Idaho, died there. Sarah, married McClain, lived in Ill. Talitha Jane, m. Francis Drake in Ill., moved to Tenn. in 1844, d. 1897."
The generations are a little muddled in Virginia's memoir, but it looks like Talitha Jane's grandparents must have been Henry and Elizabeth (Earsom) French. I know their son Henry Jr. married Sarah Purley or Pursley and had children named James Earsom French, Simon Pancake French, Mary French, and Sarah French. I've never seen anyone include Talitha Jane on the list of Henry French, Jr.'s children.
This could be at least one of the missing connections between the TN Frenchs and the Frenchs in VA and KY.
I found a public members tree some months ago with that and more. I didn't know how it fit so I stored it and moved on.
• My mother was born of Va. parents in Ky. A little woman barely five feet tall, glossy brown hair(never gray) and brown eyes, bright as a bird's; a strong chin and aquiline nose. A strong face index of a strong character. A thoughtful brow, a purposeful mouth. She always wore neat gray chalico(sometimes black and white) and a gingham waist apron, always neat. She could do anything from the finest stiching(by hand) to the roughest outdoor work. Never idle, even at night she hemmed cup towels while I read to her. My earliest rememberance is an open wood fire, and my mother rocking a grand baby while she sang, mostly hymns to it. She had a sweet singing voice. She had dauntless courage, was never downcast, did not pity herself. I remember how shocked I was the first time I saw her cry when my brother, Willie died. I thought the end of the world had come. Left a young widow when Francis Drake died, with three children, the oldest only seven years, in a strange state, no relatives at hand, she did not sit down and repine. She could sew beautifully, and she made friends who came to her assistance. She kept a tollgate for a number of years on Whites Creek Pike, Nashville, TN. The owners of the road supplied the house, paid her a salary, she had a garden, a cow, and chickens, and did fine sewing. When she married again, she had a few years of respite from toll keeping, but as my father was possessed of drink mania at intervals, she thought best to separate from him and resume her wage earning, but by then the Drake children were able to help a little. When my sister married, life was somewhat easier for her. She died May 23, 1897 at her daughter's home at 314 Foster St, Nashville,Tn. This is copied by me from a journal of sorts that Miss Jenny Frensley compiled about her family
I updated the DNA Group 4 Analysis page: http://www.frenchfamilyassoc.com/FFA/DNA/DNAGroup4Analysis.htm Note that there are 4 children: Jacob, Louisa, Henry, and John all born between 1720-1740. Most DNA tests fall under son Jacob. Of course Louisa doesn't have any because she's a female.
Noting an earlier email in this Misc. blog, Lydia Warner married Samuel French on 23 Feb 1775 in Hardwick, Worchester Co., MA, but I don't believe the DNA Group 4 came from New England.
When you open this page http://www.frenchfamilyassoc.com/FFA/DNA/DNAGroup4Analysis.htm make sure the date says 3/25/11 at the top. If it does not, you will need to redraw or refresh your screen.
I think David (Felix Latney French's test) and Isaac (Timothy Allen French's test) will eventually tie into Philip's line in KY, FFA Chart #186, which can be seen on the analysis website mentioned above.
The Lydia Warner who married Samuel French on 23 Feb 1775 was in Hardwick, Worchester, MA -- I believe this line is connected to a New England line, not PA or KY.
Yesterday I stumbled into a neat website:http://www.findagrave.com/ You don't have to be a member to search. I found gobs of graves I wanted.There is a space to add family info so can be a way to honor your dead relatives. Linda
About a month ago I put Henry's gravestone and Elizabeth's gravestone with Chart 31. It is good that these photos were taken before the stones have deteriorated as bad as the one Vicki took recently. Currently I have a very bad flu with vomiting and my body hurts all over, but late last year I had a flu shot. Perhaps next week I'll get back to genealogy. Mara
With findagrave.com you will sometimes find photographs, obituaries, and tombstone images on the listing the person who is buried there. It's fantastic.
One of the men who will take a DNA test is Bill French who is on FFA Chart #129. If this test turns out to be the same as DNA Test Group 4, then we'll have another generation back and all those other charts will tie together. Most of the wives were from Germany, especially this chart. This is great. Mara
I've updated the chart on Jacob French who was the first of this line to immigrate to Pennsylvania. He is part of the DNA Test Group 4 that several men have taken. I want to thank everyone for the added information and corrections, which there will always be forthcoming, I hope. Let me know. Photos welcomed. I still have about 1 week more work to do on this chart to finalize a few things.
Regards, Mara French http://www.frenchfamilyassoc.com/FFA/CHARTS/Chart195/
thanks Mara for all your work updating this chart. It's exciting we could be getting another Group 4 member.Rai tells me there are Oregon FRENCH so we are going to follow up on that group. Linda
I've done another round of research for Isaac French. It's a project that is endless as far as searches go. I worked mostly on the earliest generations.
Here are a few comments to think about after reading the website:
1. The Blackburn family as well as the French family lived in PA and in Berkeley, WV. A large number of these Blackburns were black and from KY who migrated north to Detroit and then to Canada. George French turns up early on in Detroit, and he was black. Could Peter French have been mulatto? Anna French, b. 1793 in KY, turns up in Detroit, married, and black.
2. Could Henry, Isaac, Jacob, and John Frantz of Pennsylvania actually have the surname French? The Christian names are the same.
3. I found a Molly French -- same area in Detroit and same timeframe (1792) as Isaac. Both Molly and Isaac had dealings with John Askin.
4. I added a chronology for Isaac which may help in research.
5. Peter, Isaac's son, may have married twice.
6. Isaac left his land to his son Peter -- no wife or other children are mentioned.
Hi Deb and others, I just made another contact with someone else who will take the DNA test for Chart #129. I've ordered the kit. Hopefully I will receive it as the "send to" info is limited. My "French" cousin just turned 90 years old so can only hope that he lives awhile longer - long enough to get a cheek swab. Thanks! Karen Engstrom This email is from Mara French. Somehow my emails keep saying "Unknown" sender and I don't know how to change that.
This is for anything else that you'd like to say!
ReplyDeleteHope this all works. Thanks, Marilyn, for your efforts. Blessings on you and your husband, Nat, as he has been hospitalized again.
ReplyDeleteNora
I posted a brief timeline for Henry French of Mercer County, KY. I have more information, but at least this is a start.
ReplyDeleteDeb
thank you Marilyn. Great job.
ReplyDeleteI think this will work great.Several members have mentioned they wern't sure how to do the blog, esp the getting a google account. maybe a little blurb to assist? I figured how to turn the page. Linda
It's easy to post...then you have to select a profile...that is an identifier. Google is the easiest...get an email address there, it is free...and use that to sign up. I have a Google address that I don't use much. We can save these things to look at again.
ReplyDeletehi Marilyn. Hope your husband is feeling better. i see the button to the right of screen that links to websites and maps,etc. How do I add something? Do I send it to you via email and then you post the link?
ReplyDeletei have completed the revided contacts list and will mail out in the am. Happy Holiday to all! Linda
I've been working on a table to track how all the submitters fit together. My sister, Vicki Carroll, has seen it as well as Linda French Dawson.
ReplyDeleteI'm lacking data on 4 submitters (Poole, Atkins and the 2 Hammans), but I've traced the French line for the rest. Unless I hear an uproar about privacy, I'll upload it to this site. If there are privacy issues, I'll e-mail it to individuals. If you wish to print it, it will fit on legal size paper.
Vicki says Deb Skoff won't like where George Hedges French is placed, but we can deal with that until new data shows up.
My ideas about George Hedges French aren't set in stone - it's just my best guess as to where he fits in with the others. We have a lot of missing pieces to find and fit together in order to find the true relationships among these Frenchs.
ReplyDeleteI'm interested to see the table you've put together and curious about how a table will fit on this site. Thanks for doing this.
My George Hedges can easily be moved also. I've found that the other husbands attributed to Catherine Hedges, Julien and Woods, were actually husbands to her aunt and namesake. The absolute lack of data on her and her spouse amazes me.
ReplyDeleteI'm thinking the chart will end up in the section off to the right labeled "Pictures, Maps etc.". Maybe, maybe not.
The table is a great reference tool. I've used it more than once.
ReplyDeleteI'm interested to see how you get the table in the link. I wanted to post a file there and I couldn't figure out how. May have to send to Marilyn and have her put it in.
http://dmfrench79.blogspot.com
ReplyDeleteThis will get you to the chart. Getting this done wasn't as simple as it looked.
If you want a clearer copy, let me know.
If anyone is doing research in the Vigo County, Indiana area, you should check out the Wabash Valley Genealogy Society website at http://www.inwvgs.org/. Click on "Databases" along the left side of the webpage.
ReplyDeleteI chose the "Vigo County Cemetery Books" link and decided to work backward so started with Vol. IV, looking for FRENCH. When I got to Vol. III, I found burials of Ersom French's first 2 wives plus a child that died at the age of 3 months. They are buried at Hull Cemetery. (Ersom is the grandson of Henry French of Mercer County, KY.)
Michael I was able to get the chart. thanks. I tried to follow Marilyn's direction to post a map but I do not find the design button. would you post how you did it, step by step.My screen says "errors on page" as I type this.
ReplyDeleteThanks to Deb for Wabash link. I have ties to Terre Haute on my maternal side and was in TH for a week researching at the library. Linda
whew. after numerous trys I created my own blogspot and I think I managed to post the 4 part 1882 map of Western MD for viewing. please let me know how it looks. these are right side up! Linda
ReplyDeletehttp://texas44lfd.blogspot.com/2011/02/1882-map-western-md-4-parts.html
link to my blog to find the 1790 map of Kentucky when it was part of Virginia.
ReplyDeletehttp://texas44lfd.blogspot.com/2011/02/map-1790-ky-shows-butler-in-nelson-and.html
hope this helps, Linda
Marilyn can we have a button where offers for lookups can be listed?
ReplyDeleteI have Map Guide to Census, Handybook for Genealogists and Andriot Twp atlas to locate boundary changes from 1790.
I am willing to do lookups in those books. Linda
I can post pictures and maps. I have linked your blog, Linda. At this point, we only have 2 people signed up to follow this. I had hoped that more folks would sign up. I think some of the posting trouble has been the fact that not you may not be on the follow list.
ReplyDeleteI think more people will sign up as they have time, Marilyn. It's helping with the emails for sure.
ReplyDeleteI'm wondering if your screen as the blog owner is a bit different from what the rest of us are seeing. The only place I see to write something is in the "Post a Comment" text box. For us to post a table, a map, a pdf, etc. we either have to set up our own blog or we could email the document to Marilyn and she would be able to post it to her blog. Does this make sense or am I missing something?
Deb, I think my screen is different. It is easy for me to post those things. I have a website and have messed with this stuff for a while.
ReplyDeleteI put your link to Wabash Valley etc. on the links page.
I also linked Linda's blog page to my link page.
I haven't tried pictures on here, yet.
I just put the chart link that MFrench put up. That one is easy to read!
ReplyDeleteDeb, I tried to upload a pdf last night. It will not accept anything but jpg,png and gif. BUT a document can be scanned into a jpg and uploaded. that is what Michael and I did. It is several extra steps.
ReplyDeleteI have to work on my blog to try and organize it so things can be found by submitter test name/number. I agree there will be more participation as time passes. We can tweak the site and make it user friendly.
you could creat your own blog which is not too hard. not user friendly though.and time consuming.
do you have a scanner? If not you can send me the file, I will convert and post. I'm willing to help. Then you can post a comment on the French Researchers blog to alert users how to access thru my blog. OK? Linda
Aw, shucks. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Marilyn. As you can see, I now have a Google account and , hopefully, have posted a comment about George French. I have been frustrated by my wall for at least ten years but leads from you and our fellow researchers have really helped. I think I can see the end, and this blog will be very useful. Fred
ReplyDeleteFred,
ReplyDeleteI'm glad you got the Google account set up. I don't find your comment about George French though. You may need to post it again.
Hi everyone. I just noticed that Mara French of FFA placed a link to our blog on the new chart 136. It may not be up yet. Fred, are there any corrections needed? We need to get busy and do some posting. Marilyn, will any data we post come up on a Google search? Did we open it to public or are we still private? Linda
ReplyDeleteWe are a public blog. Linda & Michael, just keep on with your pictures, maps, etc. Picasa that available in google, is a good place for pictures. I will post the link to my collection of French pictures. I have found another problem....IE9 will does not allow me to post ....I have to go to Firefox to post here. I like IE but the many links don't work for me there.
ReplyDeleteI copied and pasted the Samuel French/Julia Dougherty comments to the Jonathan French test page. I checked the emails that Jan Lund sent in 1999 and this agrees with her research. Jan is having a hip replacement this month and we won't be hearing from her for a while.
ReplyDeleteI was able to post the map images from my own computer files. I have flickr but don't want to mix it with my knitting stuff. IE9? How do I find out what version I have? Fred says he posted to his (George) chapter but then they disappeared. I just posted to my chapter(John Peter) and it is still there and has not disappeared. Weird.
ReplyDeletefrom Mara French
ReplyDeleteI've put together a VERY rough draft of FFA Chart #195, Jacob French.
http://www.frenchfamilyassoc.com/FFA/CHARTS/Chart195/
Knowing that Berkeley Co., WV, Frederick Co. and Orange Co. and I think Hagerstown, MD were all one and the same place but changed boundaries, it might be easier to figure out these French families who all are part of DNA Test Group 4.
Jacob French is the furthest back I've been able to research, but he seems to tie in with Chart #194.
Remember, this is only a DRAFT and needs a lot more shuffling, so please help with documents if you can.
Regards, Mara French
http://www.frenchfamilyassoc.com/FFA/
I was trying to develop a scheme to identify sub-groups within Group4 that probably were most closely related to each other. I asked Julia French Wood (FFA DNA site) for her opinion on my efforts. She advised that my approach (FTDNA-TiP and genetic distance analysis) wouldn't do what I wanted, so I have dropped it. But, I thought her response was worth sharing with everyone:
ReplyDelete"Hi Tim,
In my opinion, the TIP is useless. Mutations are random and can happen at any time. The only way you can tell which are the closest is by a pattern of the same mutation in several of the tests. For instance, the first four tests in the group (Gp 4) who have a 12 at the 31st marker have a common ancestor where that mutation occurred and the ones who have a 13 at that position have a common ancestor where that mutation happened or where their line broke off from the first four. The only way to find a common ancestor is via genealogy research using the documents and migration patterns.
"Some groups mutate more often than others and nobody knows why. It is possible, too, that a line may mutate and then the same marker returns to the original length in the next generation. If you look at Group 1 for instance, many of them have very close Haplotypes even though the common ancestor is most likely in the 17th century. Also, in my Samuel line, there is a fellow who is more closely related and he has 5 mutations out of 37 markers with the majority of the group. You may notice, too, in Group 1 that the descendants of Aaron have their specific mutation and the group at the bottom from VA instead of NJ have two or three specific mutations from the rest.
"Your group needs to all upgrade to at least 37 markers to find the patterns and identify the closest family members.
"As for work groups, it is best for all to research and all to share their findings as each could give clues to all. The findings could be shared with the French list as you never know what other data may be in the possession of someone out there.
Julia"
Cheers,
Tim
thanks, Tim.Your idea sounded like a good one. Glad we have an expert like Julia to help us. You might post a link to the Blackburn site which gives your FRENCH lineage. We are all trying to post a brief timeline also. Mara French of FFA has been working on a draft for Jacob French of WVA so we will have new info coming soon. exciting. Linda
ReplyDeleteTim,
ReplyDeleteThanks for passing along this information from Julia. To me, her most important point is that: "The only way to find a common ancestor is via genealogy research using the documents and migration patterns".
Now that DNA has proven these Frenchs ARE related, we will need to find historical evidence that can prove HOW they are related.
Migration patterns will be very important. I'm hoping that if we all post a timeline for our earliest known ancestor, it will help us decide where to focus our research efforts.
Naming patterns may also be useful. For example, has anyone noticed that Philip French b. about 1790 of Ohio/Indiana, had a son named Isaac? This suggests to me the possibility that Philip might have a closer connection to Isaac French of Detroit/Ontario than their distant places of residence indicate. How many miles is it between Butler County, OH and Detroit, MI?
When I was following the family lines for the 12 DNA submitters, I found 7 Davids, 7 Isaacs, 9 Henrys (1 Henrietta) 10 Jacobs,18 Jameses and a whopping 27 Georges.
ReplyDeleteNaming patterns a biggie. In my line (John Peter) George is frequently used but no Jacob,Isaac or Henry. Wow 27 Georges.
ReplyDeleteI would not be surprised if our common ancestor, probably the father of our Henry, your George, Jacob, Isaac and their bros, wasn't himself a Jacob.
ReplyDeleteAnd I wouldn't be surprised if the Jacob French who bought Huckleberry Hall in Frederick, MD was that fellow.
I leave Tuesday to visit Berkeley County and surrounds. See what you can do about those pesty snow storms, will you?
It can be really difficult to distinguish between a father and son who have the same name - which could be the case with Jacob French. I hope you all have wonderful weather and research success to match. Thanks for your help.
ReplyDeleteMike,
ReplyDeleteI live about a 4-hr drive north of Berkeley Co. For your trip, I'm guessing there will be rain showers, with day temps in the 50s and early mornings at freezing. Wish we were at that point at this time of the year: we still have snow on the ground in the Pocono's!
I should also not be surprised if our Philip was a Jacob, Henry, or something else. The old German tradition used saints names for the first name. We're on the right track!
ReplyDeleteThanks to all of you for signing up for this thing. I am working on the archive thing...it is almost as complicated as a website...I plan to have it up in a few days...essentially this is a simplified version of a website. They have already done some of the stuff before it sets up.
ReplyDeleteMarilyn,
ReplyDeleteI really appreciate the work you're doing with this blog. It's coming along nicely! I'm also glad to see the participation growing and the new posts that have been submitted in the last few days.
Hi Marilyn. Is it possible to have a sign that tells if there are new posts on it? or a counter or something? I have to click each of the 10 "chapters" to read a new post. I've not had good luck trying to organize my own blog storage area.Yours is a much better job. It would be nice to change the "older posts" button to page 2, page 1 also. I know most blogs don't do it but seems the most recent post should be at the top, not have to scroll to the bottom. Is hubbie home? Good Luck.Linda
ReplyDeleteNow, to muddy the waters...Philip's oldest son was Warner...I found in the DAR patriot index a Samuel who married Lydia WARNER...I don't think anyone has done a lineage on that line. Why was he named Warner? he could have been a Henry, James, John, etc. I still think there is a connection there and we can't ignore it. I wish I had more time to do this.
ReplyDeleteMy husband came home on Tues. after 12 days in the hospital. We walk one day at a time....with God's help.
Hi All,
ReplyDeleteI've made my final edits and updates to FFA Chart #195 for awhile. Now I'll work on the other charts that relate to French DNA Group 4. I may have found the connection to FFA Chart #194 and #31, but the rest are unclear.
http://www.frenchfamilyassoc.com/FFA/CHARTS/Chart195/index.htm
Please let me know about additions or corrections. Photos are also welcomed. Regards, Mara French
Please use link to websites and log onto my storage blog. I've posted a cropped 1847 Berkeley Co, VA now WVA map and key.Shows J and H FRENCH locations. The original map is big.
ReplyDeleteI am willing to do lookups for family names in the entire county. The US census 1850 follows the river and valley.
Linda
Marilyn,
ReplyDeleteFrom obits from the Berkeley papers. Harry E French (8.4) married Lavicia Beatrice Brannon, AKA Vicie. The "V" middle initial came from a census enumerator error that also caused the "V" middle initial error for their daughter Violet Beatrice French (9.5).
I have found a new genealogy search engine:
ReplyDeletemocavo.com
This search pulls from all the genforum and other similar sites. My name was all over the place on the French sites. Linda
Thanks for the heads up - I tried it briefly and it seems to have a lot of potential. Deb
ReplyDeleteI may have found a "new" granddaughter of Henry and Elizabeth (Earsom) French who moved to Tennessee before 1850. Has anyone else seen information about Talitha Jane French?
ReplyDeleteToday I found a transcibed memoir written in 1940 by Virginia Hill Frensley (1863-1946) Of Davidson County, TN. Virginia says the following:
"My Family:
Mother’s name – Talitha Jane French
Grandfather – French
Grandmother – Earsom Migrated from Va., settled in Ky.
Children:
James Earsom French
Simon Pancake French, settled in Calif.
Mary, married Denham, moved to Mo, later to Idaho, died there.
Sarah, married McClain, lived in Ill.
Talitha Jane, m. Francis Drake in Ill., moved to Tenn. in 1844, d. 1897."
The generations are a little muddled in Virginia's memoir, but it looks like Talitha Jane's grandparents must have been Henry and Elizabeth (Earsom) French. I know their son Henry Jr. married Sarah Purley or Pursley and had children named James Earsom French, Simon Pancake French, Mary French, and Sarah French. I've never seen anyone include Talitha Jane on the list of Henry French, Jr.'s children.
This could be at least one of the missing connections between the TN Frenchs and the Frenchs in VA and KY.
I found a public members tree some months ago with that and more. I didn't know how it fit so I stored it and moved on.
ReplyDelete• My mother was born of Va. parents in Ky. A little woman barely five feet tall, glossy brown hair(never gray) and brown eyes, bright as a bird's; a strong chin and aquiline nose. A strong face index of a strong character. A thoughtful brow, a purposeful mouth. She always wore neat gray chalico(sometimes black and white) and a gingham waist apron, always neat. She could do anything from the finest stiching(by hand) to the roughest outdoor work. Never idle, even at night she hemmed cup towels while I read to her. My earliest rememberance is an open wood fire, and my mother rocking a grand baby while she sang, mostly hymns to it. She had a sweet singing voice. She had dauntless courage, was never downcast, did not pity herself. I remember how shocked I was the first time I saw her cry when my brother, Willie died. I thought the end of the world had come. Left a young widow when Francis Drake died, with three children, the oldest only seven years, in a strange state, no relatives at hand, she did not sit down and repine. She could sew beautifully, and she made friends who came to her assistance. She kept a tollgate for a number of years on Whites Creek Pike, Nashville, TN. The owners of the road supplied the house, paid her a salary, she had a garden, a cow, and chickens, and did fine sewing. When she married again, she had a few years of respite from toll keeping, but as my father was possessed of drink mania at intervals, she thought best to separate from him and resume her wage earning, but by then the Drake children were able to help a little. When my sister married, life was somewhat easier for her. She died May 23, 1897 at her daughter's home at 314 Foster St, Nashville,Tn.
This is copied by me from a journal of sorts that Miss Jenny Frensley compiled about her family
I updated the DNA Group 4 Analysis page:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.frenchfamilyassoc.com/FFA/DNA/DNAGroup4Analysis.htm
Note that there are 4 children: Jacob, Louisa, Henry, and John all born between 1720-1740. Most DNA tests fall under son Jacob. Of course Louisa doesn't have any because she's a female.
Noting an earlier email in this Misc. blog, Lydia Warner married Samuel French on 23 Feb 1775 in Hardwick, Worchester Co., MA, but I don't believe the DNA Group 4 came from New England.
When you open this page
ReplyDeletehttp://www.frenchfamilyassoc.com/FFA/DNA/DNAGroup4Analysis.htm
make sure the date says 3/25/11 at the top. If it does not, you will need to redraw or refresh your screen.
I think David (Felix Latney French's test) and Isaac (Timothy Allen French's test) will eventually tie into Philip's line in KY, FFA Chart #186, which can be seen on the analysis website mentioned above.
Thanks to brother Mike spending an hour with me on the phone, I am now a member
ReplyDeleteVicki
The Lydia Warner who married Samuel French on 23 Feb 1775 was in Hardwick, Worchester, MA -- I believe this line is connected to a New England line, not PA or KY.
ReplyDeleteYesterday I stumbled into a neat website:http://www.findagrave.com/
ReplyDeleteYou don't have to be a member to search. I found gobs of graves I wanted.There is a space to add family info so can be a way to honor your dead relatives. Linda
About a month ago I put Henry's gravestone and Elizabeth's gravestone with Chart 31. It is good that these photos were taken before the stones have deteriorated as bad as the one Vicki took recently. Currently I have a very bad flu with vomiting and my body hurts all over, but late last year I had a flu shot. Perhaps next week I'll get back to genealogy. Mara
ReplyDeleteWith findagrave.com you will sometimes find photographs, obituaries, and tombstone images on the listing the person who is buried there. It's fantastic.
ReplyDeleteOne of the men who will take a DNA test is Bill French who is on FFA Chart #129.
ReplyDeleteIf this test turns out to be the same as DNA Test Group 4, then we'll have another
generation back and all those other charts will tie together. Most of the wives were
from Germany, especially this chart. This is great. Mara
Hi All,
ReplyDeleteI've updated the chart on Jacob French who was the first of this line to immigrate to Pennsylvania. He is part of the DNA Test Group 4 that several men have taken. I want to thank everyone for the added information and corrections, which there will always be forthcoming, I hope. Let me know. Photos welcomed. I still have about 1 week more work to do on this chart to finalize a few things.
Regards,
Mara French
http://www.frenchfamilyassoc.com/FFA/CHARTS/Chart195/
thanks Mara for all your work updating this chart. It's exciting we could be getting another Group 4 member.Rai tells me there are Oregon FRENCH so we are going to follow up on that group. Linda
ReplyDeleteI'm looking forward to seeing the DNA results for Chart #129. This is wonderful to hear. Thanks Mara.
ReplyDeleteHi All,
ReplyDeleteI've done another round of research for Isaac French. It's a project that is endless as far as searches go.
I worked mostly on the earliest generations.
Here are a few comments to think about after reading the website:
1. The Blackburn family as well as the French family lived in PA and in Berkeley, WV. A large number of these
Blackburns were black and from KY who migrated north to Detroit and then to Canada. George French turns
up early on in Detroit, and he was black. Could Peter French have been mulatto? Anna French, b. 1793 in KY,
turns up in Detroit, married, and black.
2. Could Henry, Isaac, Jacob, and John Frantz of Pennsylvania actually have the surname French? The
Christian names are the same.
3. I found a Molly French -- same area in Detroit and same timeframe (1792) as Isaac. Both Molly and
Isaac had dealings with John Askin.
4. I added a chronology for Isaac which may help in research.
5. Peter, Isaac's son, may have married twice.
6. Isaac left his land to his son Peter -- no wife or other children are mentioned.
Comments and suggestions welcome. Mara
Hi Deb and others, I just made another contact with someone else who will take the DNA test for Chart #129.
ReplyDeleteI've ordered the kit. Hopefully I will receive it as the "send to" info is limited. My "French" cousin just turned 90 years old so can only hope that he lives awhile longer - long enough to get a cheek swab.
Thanks!
Karen Engstrom
This email is from Mara French. Somehow my emails keep saying "Unknown" sender and I don't know how to change that.